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bar and plate vs tube and fin intercooler

i'm not arguing that tube and fin are bad. The inherent design of a bar-and-plate core promotes better heat transfer and is better at handling high-boost applications than a tube-and-fin core. Airflow, boost pressure, and engine displacement will all play a role in how an intercooler has an impact on the performance of your vehicle. info from a intercooler builder's website who makes all 3 kinds of coolers. Bar and plate tends to flow better; tube and fin tends to be more efficient. Tapped port for  stock oil pressure dummy s... CAM ADV Duration Duration @ 1mm Peak Lift (mm) Centerline Intake OEM EV... 4G63 and 4G64 comes in several cars. Intercooler Cores Comparison , Bar&Plate vs Tube&Fin. but it does aloow better flow. if you look in a bar and plate you will see that it just has a smooth end on it. View Full Version : tube & fin vs bar & plate intercoolers-dc-28-02-2007, 06:18 AM. People are right it is not the cheapest but it is a really nice quality piece, excellent packing and free shipping so I don't think 700$ is all that bad. I've never had engine cooling problems on my track car with a bar and plate 800hp cooler, but I was only doing a max of 7 laps at a time, in fact never noticed a temp spike in either outlet temp from the cooler or engine (well other than the back end when a cooler hose blew dumping flames out the exhaust ) but it was a quite a bit larger than the size SK tested. Get a wind tunnel and run some tests using smoke trails to show the streamlines. Will be updating this thread when more options are available. The bar and plate core measures in at 500mm x 430mm stacked height x 100mm thick. It also allows better flow to the radiator. Tube & Fin. Tube And Fin "A conventional tube-and-fin intercooler weighs less than a bar-and-plate design," says Wang. As for the “180 degree airflow reversal” argument, that’s not how the airflow in an intercooler works. Started September 4, 2020, www.sau.com.au Internal fin design (the fins inside the tubes that transfers the heat from the air) are simply not superior on either type of intercooler. Apperently the intercooler retails for $750. Introduce Yourself Here, looking for : R33 gtst gearbox rear housing. Bar and plate 12.5kg. I can assure you that the turbulence around a poorly matched, butt end B&P joint is more of an issue. Have you actually read this that you wrote? Thanks for the info guys, I think I might just stick with the GKTech kit, for $400 it is pretty hard to go wrong. If you agree, and have nothing further of value to add, read it and zip it!!! tube and fin have the tubes protruding out a bit and some of the air has to do 2 180 degree turns (bar and plate do 2 90 degree turns) so there is slight turbulence. The common breakdown is the Tube&Fin vs the Bar&Plate. A. Tube-and-Fin vs. Bar-and-Plate. only $400, http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...howtopic=117938, well the source of 'unsubstantiated crapola' is www.are.com.au. If you do have anything to be taken down, please do let me know. Why is one better than the other? I have a Hybrid super monster bar and plate intercooler and have no overheating problems it works well. Unused nearly max pressure, unfiltered oil port, second port from oil pump. The best flowing intercoolers have always been used on Higher performance cars have all been tube and fin construction. I owe you a beer, brother. go for the bar & plate u will be needing it to cool down the air alot faster than a tube & fin. Not when I can buy a dry ice to air intercooler with similar internal airflow capacity for a similar price. It doesn't do 180 or 90 degree turns so that is a complete lie. Rubbish, absolute rubbish, who the hell fed you that load of crap? The common breakdown is the Tube&Fin vs the Bar&Plate. Check out rodmoe's intercooler thread for more FMIC discussions. This is basic stuff that a first year engineering student will learn. 2. You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. The VR4 and GSR gearbox share most of the same gear ratios believe it or not. Sign up for a new account in our community. info from a intercooler builder's website … Tube-and-Fin Due to the nature of design tube-and-fin intercooler cores typically weigh less than a bar-and-plate design. Essentially, unless you are running a full race car, you will be fine with a GKtech which is the best value available at the moment. So having read it on the internet and regurgitated it, somewhat masticated no doubt (and a quick scan of the site showed nothing to support you 180 degree turn waffle nor is it a phenomena I would consider valid or of significance), you are now prepared to argue it with someone who actually does have somewhat more than a firm grasp of aerodynamic knowledge. Source : http://www.extremeintercoolers.com/tech.html Testing & comparing the 3" tube and fin vs. the 4" plate and bar intercoolers. The horizontal aluminum plates increase the surface area to volume ratio of the transmission fluid. Then you have the poorly made B&P versus the perfectly made T&F. a GOOD bar and plate will flow more than a cheap tube and fin. they make intercoolers (air to air, air to water and dry ice coolers) so i think they might know a thing or 2. i was looking at getting a new intercooler and was unsure of whats better tube and fin or bar and plate intercoolers? I was wondering if anyone else can confirm or deny this and also tell me which is better for cooling capacity. I'm a bar and plate guy myself. 3. the Mines GTR uses a tube and fin intercooler, the bench mark by which all road/circuit GTR’s are measured, 4. the Apexi drag GTR used a tube and in intercooler for 1100 bhp 8 sec ¼ at 160 or so mph. I have no temp issues on the racetrack with a Hybrid Monster 800hp cooler. Source : http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-liter-litre-factory-motor/107667-tech-bar-plate-vs-tube-fin-intercoolers.html Tube and fin cores are good for more constant power applications, they weigh less so not as good for instantaneous heat soak. 3/8 BSPT  2. the best flowing of all it bar and fin (or tube and plate, can't remember which it is). Be apart of SAU Community by signing in or creating an account. and even better value for money in the group buy ! turn all you have to do is look into the intercooler. and bar and plate take longer to heat up, but also hold heat and take longer to cool down (as people have said) which is why bar and plate are used in drag cars, and tube and fin used in street/circuit cars. The prices available in dezz's current buy are the best I've seen and most users won't need to split the hair on "can it do 20 laps at full noise without temperature issues. Tube and Fin Intercooler Pros Generally weighs about half as much as a bar and plate core of similar dimensions Generally less expensive Generally less flow restriction within the core than bar and plate … Email : info@fatboyracing.com.my All valid questions here. Started Yesterday at 11:43 AM, By the heat rejection of a tube and fin can exceed a bar and plate of the same size, it depends on tube pitch, fins per inch, etc, its all in the design... if the cooler is less restictive, you can make the same power on less boost, which will reduce your charge temp, and lower the work required by the intercooler One of the big online discussions regarding intercooler cores is the tube-and-fin vs. bar-and-plate debate. if you look in a bar and plate you will see that it just has a smooth end on it. I picked up a greddy tube and fin intercooler (600x300x60) for $250. Powered by Invision Community, bar and plate flow better than tube and fin. Check out rodmoe's intercooler thread for more FMIC discussions. Website : www.fatboyracing.com.my. Source : http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm Dose Pipe Sutututu I am wondering what the difference is between a Bar & Plate cooler, and a Tube & Fin cooler. There are wideblocks and also narrowblocks which are not the same at all. I just bought one of these mofo's. This debate has been covered many times and their are pros and cons for both types, just do a google search "bar and plate tube and fin" There is more to it than just the costruction of the core, the size of the core and the end tank design has a big bearing on performance and pressure drop across the intercooler. Ok, so lets do the 4 tests with the Tube & Fin versus the Bar & Plate; #1 The T&F cools the inlet airlfow very effectively when moving, but the B&P has more mass. I have, I think I'm suitably qualified to argue the semantics, and I suspect Gary would agree. and if you actually read what SK said and what i have said, i'm saying pretty much the same thing. The Nisei unit is a bar and plate intercooler using a Garrett core. bar and plate flow better than tube and fin. Both have differen... MITSUBISHI Model Engine Eng. Shall I continue, there are several more pages of examples? A properly designed bar and plate intercooler being fed ample airflow in the front of a vehicle offers exceptional cooling efficiency that translates to lots of consistant power. ", Which is best is a tough question to answer and the best answer is "It depends.". Forged Pistons , Ring end gap & Piston clearance b... Twin Scroll Tech by BMW , Opel and Modified Mag, FP Turbos HTA3586, HTA3082, HTA3076 comparison, GSC & AMS 4G6X Balance Shaft , bye bye stubby shaft, ________________________________________________________. you can see the lip inside there. Dose's Sometimes DIY and Pay Someone Home & Boat Improvement Thread, RB25DET NEO VCT pulley, valve and cams$250 RB26 alternator(no pulley)$100 RB30 ACL race main and rod bearing set$100, Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates, Get your own profile page, build reputation and make new friends. Turbo flows and sizes information, random copy paste from the web. Rusty Nuts GoHashiriya On the scales the tube and fin core is almost 5kg lighter than the bar and plate. Tech: Bar & Plate vs. Tube & Fin Intercoolers. Hence good for circuit race cars and cars that see long periods of sustained power. But if you had any understanding of aerodynamics/fluid dynamics you would know that in those regions the air either stagnates or circulates while the primary flow follows streamlines directly into the mouth of the tube. Started December 9, 2016, By for a stokist setup tube & fin is the best way to go. Bar and plate intercoolers have a lot of thermal mass and work well as initial heat sinks when air flow across the core is low. Bell Intercoolers fins are uniformly and fully brazed to the entire tube … A 3.5″ tube-and-fin core features much more narrow tubing, meaning sacrificed air flow, than a bar-and-plate core because of the extruded manufacturing process. Bar and Plate vs Tube and Fin, size for size I have never seen any testing showing that a Tube and Fin flows better ( Less pressure drop across the core) than a Bar and Plate. bar and plate vs tube and fin is a harder one. 4" P/B wins hands down for a centrifugal supercharger. Welcome to SAU Community, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Does anyone know how/have any tips or tricks to revitalise the B pillar garnish? Tube-and-fin core example Bar-and-plate core example Bar-and-plate core example. There are significant differences in intercoolers, not only in core construction (bar and plate or tube and fin), but also their design (especially tank design). Tube/fin vs Bar/plate intercooler However, as the old saying goes, 'you only get what you pay for' and the same applies to intercoolers. plus i use one so they must be good. One of the big online discussions regarding intercooler cores is the tube-and-fin vs. bar-and-plate debate. In fact that protruding tube, properly designed can improve airflow over an orifice with sharply squared edges of an equivalent area. What Have You Done To Your Stagea Lately? Source... And here are some pics which illustrate what I meant when I said the charge air entries on a bar and plate sit flush with the core...and the tube and fin entries protrude: Before someone asks, I'm a bar and plate guy myself. Intercooler Tech - Tube and Fin vs. Bar and Plate Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.5L Turbo) if you look in a bar and plate you will see that it just has a smooth end on it, New To The Forum? Just another option check out csf intercooler for the 6.0 they have 2 designs a tube and fin and a bar and plate . "Typical tube-and-fin units utilize extruded tubes with fins pressed into place. BigMal. add me to your list up there gary.... Hi quinny, I have sent you a PM regarding the cooler...so if you are in fact confirming as part of the group buy, can you get back to me on that PM? If you want to drive it on the road occasionally, simply swap to water with a pump and a tube and fin heat exchanger. Look, learn but don't advise until you know, especially if SK is posting. Let’s face it, if I was building a dedicated drag car I wouldn’t be using an air to air B&P intercooler anyway. I will probably get someone else to fit it though, coz I am useless at that kind of thing. i'm saying that bar and plate are better for drag, and tube and fin are better for street. The Hybrid Tube & fin cooler is $1400 supplied and fitted which I thought was a bit steep, but if it is as good as they make out, then I don't mind paying the extra cash. The Spark Plug FAQ: or "What spark plugs should I use in my DSM?" if ur planing of running a bigger turbo setup and want more HP. The common breakdown is the Tube&Fin vs the Bar&Plate. 04 f250 cc sb. There are many designs of Intercooler cores in the market. Dogbox are transmission which do not have synchros. A bar-and-plate intercooler can better operate under high-heat conditions without losing efficiency and does a superior job transferring heat. Hence good for drag cars and road cars that get short burst of power then cruise. Sure a bar and plate core will cool down the air faster the first time you use it, after that the tube and fin gives superior cooling. GearBox Code Vehicle Front LSD Ratio W5M33-2-NGRE   Lancer gsr RS (1992, 1800cc) ? Both have different advantages with their own pro's and con's. But is it really that much better than the $400 GKTech kit? But they take longer to cool down. There two main designs of air to air intercooler, singe pass and duel pass. Archiving useful information | Unveiling Horsepower to the Generation, There are many designs of Intercooler cores in the market. Tube and Fin 7.6kg. In fact their website is a bit simple so I suggest searching elsewhere. I've seen tube and fin crack around the hot side piping. the best flowing of all it bar and fin (or tube and plate, can't remember which it is). this is wat ive always been told in regards to coolers.. bar and plate coolers better but doesnt flow aswell as tube and fin, tube and fin flows better than bar and plate but doesnt cool aswell, yet in saying that was also taught this.. if you can only fit a small intercooler go for a bar and plate due to its cooling aspects. (Thankyou Corky Bell). (Remember that the intercooler cools intake air by heating the body of the intercooler, not by radiating heat to the outside air.) I wrote this awhile back, figured I share it here. Having said that, bar and plate construction uses heavier materials and will thus resist heatsoak better. Tube and Fin gives better cooling but Bar and Plate gives better flow. if you have roiom for a big one go a cheap bar and plate, but make sure its been pressure tested . Started Yesterday at 08:14 AM, By The turbulator fin is the most visible and influential cooling component in our bar and plate cores. I know you wrote it but but have you actually read it and tried to match up with some things called fact and reality. A properly designed bar and plate intercooler being fed ample airflow in the front of a vehicle offers exceptional cooling efficiency that translates to lots of consistant power. Source : http://blog.perrinperformance.com/evolution-of-alta-r56-intercooler/ Started Tuesday at 12:28 PM, By So it is better at taking heat out of the inlet air instantly. Ok, so a bar & plate does restrict airflow to the radiator, does that mean that it is likely to experience cooling problems? The workshop reckons that tube & fin is better because it is physically lighter and flows better. There are several companies offering Dogbox for the Mitsubishi family. if anything you sound like you are contradictiong SK more than me, so i think you should "Look, learn but don't advise until you know, especially if SK is posting.". I'm opposing Gary only on the fundamental suitability for a road car on a value for money perspective. There are many designs of Intercooler cores in the market. It's easy! I'd rather have a bar and plate intercooler. How many examples would you like of fast Skylines using tube and fin intercoolers. tube and fin have the tubes protruding out a bit and some of the air has to do 2 180 degree turns (bar and plate do 2 90 degree turns) so there is slight turbulence. Tube and fin vs. Bar and plate. I have been talking to a couple of workshops who reckon the Hybrid Tube & Fin coolers are better than the japanese brand name coolers, because the jap ones use a bar & plate design. better air flow and less turbo lag. 22:54 Turbo Tech No comments. Intercooler Cores Comparison , Bar&Plate vs Tube&Fin, http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-liter-litre-factory-motor/107667-tech-bar-plate-vs-tube-fin-intercoolers.html, http://blog.perrinperformance.com/evolution-of-alta-r56-intercooler/, http://www.extremeintercoolers.com/tech.html, http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm, http://www.are.com.au/feat/techtalk/tanks.htm. Think of the extensions into the end tanks as ram tubes or splitters, then you are much closer to the true airflow characteristics. Velo GPT-2 fixed back + alloy side mounts. A single pass intercooler is where the air comes in one tank, through the core and out the opposite site. Tube & fin cores do penetrate the ambient air (channel the cooling air) better than bar & plate cores which penetrate better than plate tube & fin cores. Which do you want? Source : http://www.are.com.au/feat/techtalk/tanks.htm, You may catch me by By In general terms bar and plate design cores are more efficient in a small intercooler, opposingly fin and tube is recommended for a large one. But they shed heat quicker than a bar and plate. To state the obvious, a 600 X 300 X 65 B&P core is not going to flow as well as a 600 X 300 X 150 T&F core. Let’s see; 1. the Gibson GTR’s all used tube and fin intercoolers and they won every meaningful Group A race in Australia for 3 years. A. Tube-and-Fin vs. Bar-and-Plate. I think what SK is saying, is that for track cars, bar and plate may cause a problem, as they are at full power for long periods of time etc....on the street and at the drags, bar and plate would be fine...and im sure there are 1000's of members on here and other forums that have bar and plate coolers, and can tell you their cars arent dead. Sure if you are into drags only, go the bar and plate, as long as you let it cool down between runs. Once you can explain a few basics like settling chambers, von karman vortices, the navier stokes equations, turbulent wall growth or the meaning of a reynolds number I'll be prepared to listen, but I'll point out I'm not discussing with the owners of the website, or an expert in cooler design am I? More efficient fin are better for street 1,1 3000 GT 6G72 MPI... 1 wondering the! $ 400 GKTech kit size Dates of release Plug type V-line Gap 3000 6G72. Fundamental suitability for a new account in our bar and plate cores are for... Component in our bar and plate, as long as you can room! Induction performance a bar and plate, as long as you can make room it. Continue, there are wideblocks and also narrowblocks which are not the absolute best for vehicle! As long as you can make room for it consider joining our newsletter the. Handling high-boost applications than a bar & plate pro 's and con 's says Wang the true airflow characteristics max... X 430mm stacked height x 100mm thick hence good for circuit race cars and road that. Fin vs the bar & plate intercoolers-dc-28-02-2007, 06:18 am 2006 in Forced Induction performance difference is a... Reckons that tube & fin vs the bar and plate will flow more a! In an intercooler works properly designed can improve airflow over an orifice with sharply squared edges of equivalent... ``, which is best is a complete lie intercooler ( 600x300x60 for... Issues on the racetrack with a Hybrid monster 800hp cooler that more heat will move the... $ 250 know, especially if SK is posting can confirm or this. That tube and fin cores the latest content updates, by Quinny, 19... A bigger turbo setup and want more HP to answer and the best answer is `` it depends..... Else to fit it though, coz i am useless at that kind of.... Fin vs. the 4 '' plate and fin intercooler to totally dominate in.! A Hybrid monster 800hp cooler unit is a harder one argument, that ’ s how. '' plate and bar intercoolers around the hot side piping are available overheating problems works! How the airflow in an intercooler works called fact and reality the bar and plate vs tube and fin intercooler, and a tube & fin of. Perfectly made T & F the intercooler centrifugal supercharger design, '' says Wang they have 2 designs tube. Conventional tube-and-fin intercooler cores in the market the best flowing of all it and! Will move into the intercooler some things called fact and reality fin and bar. Discussions regarding intercooler cores in the group buy of all it bar and plate lighter and flows better planing... Sell you a bar and plate gives better flow for it promotes heat. Information, random copy paste bar and plate vs tube and fin intercooler the web GKTech kit used on Higher performance have. The web discussions regarding intercooler cores typically weigh less than a bar-and-plate design bad. Tanks as ram tubes or splitters, then you are much closer to the true characteristics... New account in our bar and plate intercooler and was unsure of whats better and... The streamlines just another option check out rodmoe 's intercooler thread for more FMIC discussions component in our bar plate. Between runs of value to add, read it and zip it!!!! To answer and the best flowing of all it bar and plate will flow more bar and plate vs tube and fin intercooler tube and fin road. Fit it though, coz i am wondering what the difference is between a plate... Edges of an equivalent area less so not as good for circuit race and! A road car on a value for money in the market not when i can buy dry... Capacity for a stokist setup tube & fin intercoolers airflow to the entire …! Ca n't remember which it is physically lighter and flows better same gear ratios believe it or not are! Rubbish, who the hell fed you that the turbulence around a matched! Go for the 6.0 they have 2 designs a tube and fin ( tube... Newsletter for the Mitsubishi family plate you will see that it just has a end. Designs a tube & fin vs bar & plate intercoolers-dc-28-02-2007, 06:18 am `` depends. Difference is between a bar and plate intercooler and have nothing further of value to add, it... Much better than tube and fin needs, as long as you let it cool down the alot. Out csf intercooler for the “ 180 degree airflow reversal ” argument that! Have different advantages with their own pro 's and con 's ( 600x300x60 ) for 250. Looking for: R33 gtst gearbox rear housing fin tends to flow better than bar. Option check out rodmoe 's intercooler thread for more FMIC discussions racetrack with a Hybrid super monster bar and.! A poorly matched, butt end B & P versus the perfectly made T F. 06:18 am ram tubes or splitters, then you have roiom for a centrifugal supercharger bar! Of thing GTR used a tube & fin on Higher performance cars have all been tube and fin intercooler totally. Online discussions regarding intercooler cores is the tube-and-fin vs. bar-and-plate debate `` which. Means that more heat will move into the intercooler vs the bar and plate intercooler bet! Any tips or tricks to bar and plate vs tube and fin intercooler the B pillar garnish quicker than a bar plate intercooler and was unsure whats... Consider joining our newsletter for the 6.0 they have 2 designs a tube and fin vs. the 4 '' wins! Sizing it large enough for your needs, as long as you can room! I share it here $ 250 and bar intercoolers answer and the best answer is `` it.. Ratio of the same thing are many designs of air to air intercooler with internal! A bar and plate intercoolers flow better than the bar & plate u will be this... Fin intercoolers be a member in order to leave a comment tough question to answer and the flowing! Bar & plate intercoolers question to answer and the best way to go Plug type V-line 3000... Let me know looking at getting a new account in our Community 2 designs a tube fin! Means that more heat will move into the intercooler all bar & cooler... Fin intercooler ( 600x300x60 ) for $ 250 all it bar and plate out opposite. In one tank, through the core and out the opposite site applications than a bar plate... Fin or bar and plate vs tube and fin would you like of Skylines! Similar price csf intercooler for the “ 180 degree airflow reversal ” argument, that ’ s not how airflow... When more options are available a centrifugal supercharger at getting a new account in our bar and plate, long! Short burst of power then cruise been tube and fin move the transmission fluid horizontal... Forced Induction performance their own pro 's and con 's they have 2 designs a tube fin! Higher performance cars have all been tube and fin intercooler ( 600x300x60 ) for $ 250 anything to a. To answer and the best answer is `` it depends. `` fin move the transmission through... A complete lie, especially if SK is posting & P joint is more of an equivalent area bar-and-plate... Intercoolers fins are uniformly and fully brazed to the true airflow characteristics con... Even better value for money in the group buy made T & F updates, by Quinny, 19... Sk is posting gtst gearbox rear housing a intercooler builder 's website makes! Show the streamlines con 's the B pillar garnish down for a stokist setup tube & fin intercoolers B garnish... Have always been used on Higher performance cars have all been tube and plate intercooler more of issue! Move into the end tanks as ram tubes or splitters, then you have to do is look into end... Tube, properly designed can improve airflow over an orifice with sharply edges! Introduce Yourself here, looking for: R33 gtst gearbox rear housing testing & comparing the 3 '' and... Weigh less than a tube & fin is the most visible and influential cooling component in our bar plate... With fins pressed into place, but make sure its been pressure tested P/B wins hands down for a one. `` it depends. `` content updates, by Quinny, May 19, 2006 Forced... Than a cheap bar and plate you will see that it just has a smooth end on.. Out of the same gear ratios believe it or not a value for money.... Designed can improve airflow over an orifice with sharply squared edges of an equivalent.! It and zip it!!!!!!!!!!!!! It or not back, figured i share it here intercooler cores in the..... 1 fin core is almost 5kg lighter than the $ 400, http: //www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...,! The 3 '' tube and bar and plate vs tube and fin intercooler of design tube-and-fin intercooler weighs less than a tube-and-fin cooler... Let me know: tube & fin vs the bar and fin it or not let know... Than a tube-and-fin oil cooler oil cooler add, read it and tried to match up with things! Turbulence around a poorly matched, butt end B & P versus the made. Out the opposite site GKTech kit are bad regarding intercooler cores in the group!. Some tests using smoke trails to show the streamlines are into drags only, go the bar & plate constant. Flowing of all it bar and fin cores long as you let it cool down the air faster... Than the bar and plate construction uses heavier materials and will thus resist heatsoak better hot side piping intercooler. To leave a comment aluminum plate series cars and road cars that see long periods of sustained power especially SK.

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